Reignite Desire After 50: A Practical Guide for Couples

In this engaging interview, sexologist Julia Satterlee discusses how couples over 50 can rekindle desire, improve intimacy, and rediscover pleasure through practical tools, communication, and self-exploration. The conversation covers hormonal changes, desire cycles, and innovative approaches to intimacy that last a lifetime.

• Reconnecting and re-envisioning intimacy in later life
• Understanding the sexual response cycle and desire types
• Tools for communication and overcoming shame
• Self-exploration and body awareness exercises
• Creating a sustainable love and pleasure lifestyle
• 
  

Connect with Julia:

IG @pleasure.wise

www.pleasure-wise.com

Episode is sponsored by Boston Scientific and EDCure. For more information click here:
www.EDCure.com/BTS 

Connect with Between the Sheets:

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Email: podcastbetweenthesheets@gmail.com


Work with Dr. Stephanie:

www.ReviveISH.com

Transcript

Stephanie Zwonitzer (00:01.202)
Welcome back to Between the Sheets. We have a three-peat here today. This is Julia's third time on the show, and we are very excited to have her here. She is a fabulous sexologist, and she has a new program out that she's working with patients and couples who are in long-term relationships and over 50, who are ready to move from routine and disconnection to playfulness, pleasure, and genuine desire again. So this is very exciting. I'm so happy to have you.

here. Welcome back!

Julia Satterlee (00:33.336)
Thank you. I'm so excited to be back with you. I love our conversations. is so much fun.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (00:38.448)
It's fun every time, I love it. So I know that you are fabulous and as our listeners have heard you multiple times now, they know that you're fabulous and I am excited about this topic because...

It is near and dear to my heart. It's a large population of the patients that I treat coming in for erectile dysfunction, vaginal issues, going through menopause. But then there's this part of it that I don't get to help with a whole lot in the urology office, and that's that connection and that desire and that playfulness, and that's where you come in.

Julia Satterlee (01:16.206)
That's exactly right. Exactly. And I love to refer to people like you. So it is really helpful to have exactly to have these connections. And yeah, I'm so lucky though, because I do get to work on, you know, some of the same issues that you work on from a different angle, right? And working with folks on erection difficulties and working with folks on all kinds of orgasm concerns, right? A lot of what folks

Stephanie Zwonitzer (01:21.46)
It's a team effort.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (01:35.912)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (01:39.87)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Satterlee (01:45.218)
me about is erection issues, orgasm concerns, other types of arousal stuff, right? All kinds of desire issues. And one of the things that really lights me up, and this is why I started creating this program, is getting couples on the same page. Because there is so much involved, so it can be really challenging. There's so many pieces of the puzzle.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (01:52.21)
Yeah!

Stephanie Zwonitzer (02:14.632)
Yeah.

Julia Satterlee (02:14.754)
but it is so rewarding and it can be really fun. So I'm so excited to dive in deeper to all that this topic has to offer today.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (02:19.347)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (02:25.392)
Yeah, me too. I think it's such an important phase of life too, because a lot of people are becoming empty nesters. We're going through major hormonal changes. For some people, it's maybe a second relationship that they really don't want to break apart this time, or they're trying a little bit harder, or whatever it is. And so I think it's just such a great phase of life to be involved in and to really help these couples through. where do you start? What are you doing with these couples when you first start this program?

program.

Julia Satterlee (02:56.354)
Yeah, so I created the content for this program based on what I see in so many couples who are calling me, which is starting then with the connection piece and really low stakes, easier wins, know, getting people to have some fun again, to bring some curiosity in again about their partner, because I think one of the things that happens

Stephanie Zwonitzer (03:17.864)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Satterlee (03:23.714)
when we're with somebody for a long time, not only do we lose that initial wow, right? Which I always love to reassure couples that that's a hormonal thing that everybody loses to an extent, right? Even in the best circumstances, that initial, butterflies in the stomach feeling wears off for everybody. That doesn't.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (03:36.306)
Yeah. Yes. Yes.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (03:48.264)
Yeah, everybody.

Julia Satterlee (03:50.286)
Mean anything about your love the quality of your relationship or whether you like that person or not, right? Going to wear off anyway, but it doesn't have to be from that into boredom and ho-hum and fighting and all the negatives and We're just stuck now forever. Like that's not the alternative It's not either or there and so there are lots of ways that we can

Stephanie Zwonitzer (03:57.801)
Great.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (04:09.064)
Yeah. Right. Right.

Julia Satterlee (04:19.63)
get that spark back, not in the same way as when we first met. No, it's not gonna feel like that. It's not gonna feel like we're, you know, 21. Who do we really want it to?

Stephanie Zwonitzer (04:24.286)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (04:31.132)
Right.

Julia Satterlee (04:34.83)
But it can feel fun again. It can be exciting again. It can be interesting again. We can engage again with our partners. So I really like to start people off with some ways to just reconnect and re-see your partner, re-envision what you want to bring to the table, so to speak to the table, not in the way people sometimes talk about that, I'm providing for the family, whatever. But what do we wanna bring in terms of how we're showing up?

Stephanie Zwonitzer (04:35.197)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (04:55.668)
All right. All right.

Julia Satterlee (05:03.768)
for our relationship, for our partner, right? Reinvisioning some of that. That's definitely how I like to get started. And so in that vein, I do want to share with your listeners that I created a quiz for folks to find out their intimacy play style. And I created these kind of archetypes or these types, these styles based in part on different just non-sexual play styles.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with the play styles quiz that exists. There's like 12 different types of play that people engage in. Again, that's a totally non sexually related way of playing. But in that play style quiz, they've identified a lot of different ways that we show up playfully, that we show up and engage our sense of play.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (05:32.551)
Okay.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (05:37.181)
I'm not.

Okay.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (05:45.873)
Yeah.

Julia Satterlee (05:59.116)
And so I brought in some of that and paired it with some eroticism and sexual patterns that I see, you know, how this shows up if you're kinky, for example, if you tend to gravitate towards this play style. So I created six different categories of kind of types that I see and how they might show up and want to connect naturally.

So that's part of kind of the initial like, hey, how can we connect in ways that feel good for us, not in ways where we think we should be connecting.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (06:31.954)
Yeah, yeah, that should is big out there, isn't it? It's, it's in every aspect of our life, there's different things that we should do because of how we're told and what society says and things, but definitely in our relationships. And I think there's this whole other level of when you're getting closer to retirement and things like that, there's this whole new set of shoulds. And, and I think you're right, a lot of them are relational, and we need to kind of break that apart and say,

What is it that I really want out of this relationship and where can we go as a couple? I love that you're putting the emphasis on that.

Julia Satterlee (07:05.666)
Yeah, I love that you brought up, you know, that sense of should in this different phase of life because it does look so different, right? Maybe they've gotten away from the shoulds of our sex should look like it does in the movies, in the media, whatever media we're watching or reading. But maybe they're now in this, well now we should be spending all weekend together because the kids are finally grown, right? Now we should be in this really different.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (07:23.016)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (07:30.387)
Right.

Julia Satterlee (07:34.286)
Now we should be behaving like this and that's not actually what they want either, right? So getting past those shoulds is so crucial at all stages of life, but definitely.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (07:40.669)
Right.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (07:46.226)
Yeah. So do you have the quiz and then do you have any other like activities during this program that you suggest to people to kind of get this reconnection going?

Julia Satterlee (07:57.12)
Absolutely, absolutely. So that was just from the first module really that's like the early days of work, right? The early days of finding your playfulness again finding ways to connect again So it's really split into five different modules and then I have additional content There's you know live sessions together. We can debrief things we can also

Stephanie Zwonitzer (08:01.019)
Okay.

Julia Satterlee (08:20.654)
Bring in new tools from from various places whether that's okay. This research just came out that Masturbation during menopause is really healthy and helpful for your symptoms. Great. What are we doing with this? How do we apply this data? Right. So whether that's applying data or looking at here's a new toy Have you ever thought about playing with this? Have you ever thought about bringing in this type of tool, right?

Stephanie Zwonitzer (08:33.896)
It is.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (08:44.594)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (08:48.702)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Satterlee (08:49.92)
you, you know, thought about different positions that are helpful when you have aches and pains or chronic pain somewhere. So just bringing in some different ideas all across the board. So that's included in the content as well as they get monthly, monthly live calls with me and monthly live calls where perhaps at some point I'll be bringing in some other experts like you, Stephanie.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (08:55.623)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (09:14.708)
Perfect. Yeah, I think that's great. think I love what you're saying about the different positions and things like that. Like what's based on, how do you feel today? Because here's the thing, in our 20s, we felt great. Whether it was after a night of... Sorry. I'm gonna, hold on one second. Kaluua, sorry, I'm babysitting my boyfriend's dog and she likes to bark at everybody.

So I'm just gonna wait till my son goes back upstairs, because she's gonna bark again.

Are you? Okay.

Yeah, right. He said maybe she won't bark next time I come down. Yeah, right. Okay. All right. So I love what you were saying about, you know, finding different positions and things like that based on how we feel for the day because in our 20s, we felt great, right? Didn't matter if it was after a night of partying, not sleeping, whatever it was, it just felt great because you're only 20 years old.

Julia Satterlee (09:58.004)
Ha ha ha.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (10:16.232)
But in our 40s, our 50s, our 60s, that's not the case anymore. We have aches and pains. We have arthritis that we're working around. Maybe we have an injury from doing something recently. I'm great at being prone to injury. And so I think that it's super important to find these. I actually, this is so funny, but in my office, when I have patients come in for different reasons, we will literally sit there and try with the husband and the wife to figure

out like how does this work? Can you lift your leg here? And we like literally try and figure out positions for them in my clinic fully clothed trying to figure out like how might this work when you get home and like what can you use? Can you prop your leg up on something? you? So I love that you take that into it because it is so true.

Julia Satterlee (11:07.042)
I love the imagery of folks practicing this in your office with all the clothes on. Like, yes, I want your patients to know how lucky they are. I hope they show you lots of appreciation.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (11:19.571)
Yeah.

and lots of giggles yes yes yes

Julia Satterlee (11:25.454)
Because our appreciation, 100%.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (11:28.244)
Yeah, it is. mean, you know, and it's it's different. You know, I've had wives who maybe have like the husband might be my patient coming in for whatever his issues are. But the wife had broken a hip and she's coming out, you know, and things like that. And he'll talk to me about it. like, all right, well, what do you think of this position for her or whatever? And she might not even be there and we'll kind of give some ideas and he'll report back to me. Hey, that really worked and we can have sex again or whatever. And it's it's just so cool. It's a whole different level of play. Right. When

Julia Satterlee (11:56.941)
Yes.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (11:57.656)
Not that you don't need to still figure out what you like and don't like because that changes throughout life, but usually by our 50s and 60s, we probably know what's working well for us and what's not and things like that. And so.

But we now have our bodies in a different phase of life with different maybe disease processes going on or whatever. So now there's a whole new slew of things we got to work and quote unquote play with to try and figure out how best to experience pleasure.

Julia Satterlee (12:28.574)
I mean, yeah, I totally agree with that. But I wanna add that it is such a great opportunity for us to rediscover ourselves and what we like at this different phase of life, right? I think that I don't even want to look at it as like, we already know what we like and we just gotta figure out new stuff, cause bodies change. Like I'm looking at it like, this is...

Stephanie Zwonitzer (12:40.669)
Yeah.

Julia Satterlee (12:55.662)
We're in this transitional phase, whether that's because we're now empty nesters or because we are going through menopause or andropause or whatever the case, right? Also just other aging challenges of like, oh gosh, we're past 30 now. Like this is a different place. For all of those reasons, I see this as such a cool opportunity.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (13:08.126)
Yep.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (13:16.339)
Yeah.

Julia Satterlee (13:25.25)
to really redefine what sex means to us, how our relationship functions, right? To reengage with our sensuality, even if maybe we haven't really engaged with that before, right? To come to our relationship with and to our bodies and our relationship with our bodies with new eyes in a way, right? And I know that's not easy for people to conceptualize sometimes of like new eyes and this.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (13:29.78)
Mm.

Julia Satterlee (13:54.964)
old body or in this old relationship like, huh, you know, I've some of the folks in my community already have been married for anywhere from 10 to 40 years. And, you know, it can be like, fresh, what like, I don't know. But there is newness, there's always a space for some newness and a sense of doing things differently and discovery and

Stephanie Zwonitzer (13:55.965)
you

Stephanie Zwonitzer (14:10.228)
You

Julia Satterlee (14:24.086)
I think that I do want to brag on myself in that way, that that's what really lights me up. That is where I get to express my creativity is seeing those spaces to really bring in that different energy of like, this is an opportunity, right? Like, what if we take this like this? And so I love it. I had a session recently talking through some of the quiz examples because my quiz isn't to put people in boxes.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (14:31.102)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (14:42.835)
Yeah.

Julia Satterlee (14:53.858)
The purpose is for folks to be like, okay, well, this is some ways that I like to connect that I'm drawn to connecting, but my partner likes to connect in these ways. So what are we doing? And how can we come up with new ideas for any of this really, right? How can we get out of the routine? And my brain for whatever reason is like, like this, how about this? Have you tried this?

Stephanie Zwonitzer (15:10.537)
Yeah.

Julia Satterlee (15:18.86)
Let's think about it like this. And it's so much fun for me. Like this is play space, you know?

Stephanie Zwonitzer (15:18.931)
Yeah.

I love that.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (15:25.926)
Yeah, yeah, no, I think that's incredible. So what are the next steps then? They're working on this reconnecting and kind of finding this playfulness. What are the next modules they're going to work through?

Julia Satterlee (15:36.14)
Yeah, so after that module two is all about your body and your partner's body. And so I really go into detail about anatomy and the sexual response cycle and all kinds of ways that our body works and body changes and really encourage folks now take a breath, right? Sit down if you're standing up listeners like.

Because in that module, I also really encourage people to explore their own bodies before we dive into, you know, some of the really exciting, fun building your sexual roadmap together. Before we get there, we want to really look at where am I in my body right now? What feels good for me? What am I comfortable with? What do I want to maybe get more comfortable with? Right. Am I familiar with how my body's even working right now?

Stephanie Zwonitzer (16:08.53)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Satterlee (16:32.524)
Am I familiar with, how familiar am I with what turns me on right now? Right? Some of the things that we talked about earlier in this conversation, Stephanie, you're saying, yeah, a lot of times we already kind of know what we like. Yeah, that's true. But if we think about it, how much do we really know what we like? And this moment, it does change so much for so many of us. So it's a great opportunity. So next module is let's explore bodies. Let's explore our own desires.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (16:37.256)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Satterlee (17:02.328)
before we even go too far with our couples stuff, getting more familiar on your own.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (17:05.428)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (17:09.108)
Yeah, I think that's so important. also always love to encourage patients to do mutual masturbation too, right? Like, so do it next to each other, do it with each other, do it, watch me do it, whatever, because number one, we learn from each other. We can, oh, I didn't know you like to be touched that way or you're gripped that way or whatever. But also, if you haven't been intimate in a while or you're struggling with things like vaginal dryness and erectile dysfunction and things,

it takes that pressure off of getting that penetration or achieving that specific climax or whatever. It kind of takes that pressure off and it makes it a little bit more playful I think.

Julia Satterlee (17:48.558)
Absolutely. Yes, I definitely agree. And I think it can be mutual masturbation. It can be all kinds of different ways to connect, but to connect sexually. But I think that taking that pressure off of it having to be like this, that taking those shits out of the equation again is a really magical opening for discovery again.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (17:57.556)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (18:06.779)
Yes.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (18:12.028)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. All right, so they're going to explore themselves and then what?

Julia Satterlee (18:18.498)
So, da da da da, module three is all about communication and how we express ourselves, how we kind of, all right, we've thought a little bit about our own bodies, our own desires, let's work on kind of some of the agreements that we need to talk about this without all that, all of the pressure and the tension and some of the shame that comes up, right? Lots of people.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (18:24.765)
Okay.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (18:45.171)
Yeah.

Julia Satterlee (18:46.858)
Unfortunately, a lot of people feel a lot of shame either about their bodies, about what they like, about how little they like sometimes, right? Sometimes we are feeling guilt or shame because maybe we don't feel a lot of desire. We, you know, maybe have lots of physical reasons for that, whatever the reason, we just often feel a lot of shame about our sexuality and our bodies. And so,

Stephanie Zwonitzer (18:54.654)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (19:11.304)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Satterlee (19:16.556)
Being able to think about this differently and talk about this differently and take off some of that pressure and that heaviness, any new ways to talk about it is so, so important in this process, I think. So that's next up after bodies.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (19:25.78)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (19:32.668)
Yeah.

I love that because I think, you know, I'm always a big proponent of if you can't talk to somebody about sex, you probably shouldn't be having sex with that person. And I think that being able to talk about the fact that you're having changes with sex and you're having changes with desire and what works and what doesn't work in positions and all of those things, it's so important to have those conversations because it allows you to not grin and bear it, just get through it, things like that. It really allows you to say, hey,

Remember last night when we tried this? It actually was pretty painful for me, but maybe we can try it with this, or maybe I need more lube, or whatever it might be, and you can have those conversations when you're not in the hot and heavy moment, so that next time you're more prepared.

Julia Satterlee (20:18.65)
Exactly, exactly. No, those conversations are so crucial. But Stephanie, I think that so many couples don't feel comfortable. You know, I think like ideally, yes, we wouldn't be having sex and we couldn't talk about it. But unfortunately, I think the reality is the majority of couples aren't really talking openly about it most of the time, again, because of all those pressure expectations, those unspoken shoulds.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (20:31.592)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (20:39.945)
Yeah.

Julia Satterlee (20:46.734)
And because we didn't get these tools that we really need to be able to talk about it without all the heaviness to make it a regular conversation, you know, to teach ways to do this both in the moment and beyond, right? Because sometimes in the moment too, if it's hurting, that's a great moment to stop. Let's not tolerate pain. Like sex would feel good for everybody, right? But I work with so many people who are like,

Stephanie Zwonitzer (20:46.964)
I agree. Right.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (20:52.691)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (21:00.158)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (21:03.86)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. Yes.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (21:11.954)
Right, right.

Julia Satterlee (21:15.284)
Yeah, I've been tolerating this because I don't want to disappoint my partner. Like your partner doesn't want you to be in pain. Like, think the statistic that I've read something like a survey by the American Sexual Health Association, I think found that only like 24 % of couples felt like really open and honest in their communication about sex.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (21:20.308)
Great.

Right. Yes. Yeah, absolutely.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (21:40.724)
Wow. We got a lot of work to do. Yeah. Well, and it's specifically for this age group that we're talking about too. I mean, when you and I were growing up, sex was still just very PC, whatever, but the generations above us...

Julia Satterlee (21:44.524)
Yeah, yeah, it's dire.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (21:58.505)
I mean, you really didn't talk about it at all. They didn't show it on TV. They had separate beds on TV shows, all of this. So it is really important, especially for this generation that we're talking this 50 plus, because you're right, they didn't have the tools to have these conversations and maybe haven't had good deep conversations. And this is a turning point.

Julia Satterlee (22:03.436)
Right. Yes.

Julia Satterlee (22:18.646)
Mm-hmm, absolutely. Yeah, it's a great moment. And if even just one person is really excited to start this communication, that can help bring the other person along, right? Even if one person is like, I'm not sure about this, it can really help. I've worked with so many people individually who only they were coming to sessions.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (22:30.899)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Satterlee (22:45.464)
but they were doing, their partner knew their partner was on board with them coming and was participating in kind of the activities outside of it. And it's worked really well for the most part. And so that's one of the things that also is heartening about this membership is that it is for couples, but if, you know, one of you is like super on board and the other person is like, I don't know about this. It still ends up working as long as there's some openness to.

know, participating with your partner at home, then we're good. Like we can carry each other in that way.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (23:16.168)
Yeah. Yeah.

I love that. That's amazing. I want to go back to it just popped into my head. We were in the last module. We were talking about self exploration. And one of the things you said was the arousal and kind of going through that. Can you talk a little bit more about that? Because I think that is definitely missed for a lot of people that there really is this like you don't just decide you want to have sex and boom, you're ready to go and you're turned on. Like there really is a phase of this. I know, right? I know there really is this cycle in these

Julia Satterlee (23:46.028)
Unfortunately.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (23:50.728)
that you go through. So let's talk through that a little bit.

Julia Satterlee (23:53.856)
Yeah, absolutely. I'm so glad you asked because that's one of the things that's so painful sometimes for folks is that they'll be like, I'm having, you know, such terrible arousal problems. Like, it takes me, you know, this long to get aroused now. And it used to be, you know, in one minute, I was ready to go. And it's like, OK, well, that's great that you used to only need a minute. But like, you're you're not out of the norm here.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (24:13.3)
Right.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (24:22.76)
Right.

Julia Satterlee (24:23.254)
if it's taking you some time to get aroused, it takes some different stimulation, like that's okay, right? That's absolutely within the normal range. And as long as you're figuring out what does get you there, like great, wonderful, like let's go there. But I think one of the biggest myths that...

Stephanie Zwonitzer (24:26.418)
Yep.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (24:30.515)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (24:42.003)
Yeah.

Julia Satterlee (24:46.914)
people believe about arousal, you know, they think that the sexual response cycle works kind of like Masters and Johnson originally charted, right? It's like this straight line upwards of like, okay, first you feel desire and then you start getting aroused and your arousal just goes up and up and up to plateau and then you orgasm and then there's the refactory period, yay.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (25:12.7)
Yeah.

Julia Satterlee (25:13.742)
And that is not how it works so much of the time. So much of the time. First of all, the whole idea of desire, right? Sometimes desire doesn't happen until after we start to feel arousal, right? That's responsive desire. And many people have responsive desire a lot of the time, right? It's not limited to just like, I am a person who experiences spontaneous desire and therefore,

Stephanie Zwonitzer (25:17.502)
Right, right.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (25:26.674)
Yep.

Julia Satterlee (25:42.38)
I will always and forever only experience spontaneous desire. I just magically get in the mood whenever. okay, great. Lots of people sometimes experience spontaneous desire and sometimes, especially in long-term relationships, really experience a lot more responsive desire. We do often have to put in some effort to make some time and space in order for arousal and sex to happen.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (25:47.112)
Yeah.

Right.

Julia Satterlee (26:11.938)
that doesn't mean it's like less worthy, right? There's a whole lot of prioritizing of spontaneous sex or spontaneous desire even, like, it works better. Your body's working right if you just start thinking about sex and then go have it. That's really not like the right way. There is no right or wrong here, but people don't know enough about responsive desire and how that's totally normal too.

And so sometimes we get into that trap of like, I just don't really have desire or whatever the case, because they don't know how that works for them. So that's where some of it can come in is just knowing that responsive desire is a thing and that that's okay. And then on top of that, knowing that it's not always a straight line for many of us that maybe...

Stephanie Zwonitzer (26:53.65)
Yes. Yes.

Julia Satterlee (27:01.558)
Our brain starts thinking about the email we didn't send or the laundry that is over in the corner distracting us or right, our minds can get off on a tangent or we're worrying about the erection. We're worrying about whatever it is or how our body looks, all those sorts of things. Those thoughts pop in, our arousal starts to go back down. Maybe we can bring it back up with this type of kissing or this thought or this.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (27:10.398)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (27:14.067)
Yep.

Julia Satterlee (27:28.14)
you know, sexy talk that our partner does or whatever the case, Our arousal isn't this straight line. It can go sometimes kind of circly. Sometimes we don't end up having an orgasm. We can still have a good experience. Sometimes some people have multiple orgasms. Doesn't have to end with an orgasm, right? All kinds of possibilities there that don't make it a straight line.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (27:32.808)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (27:46.43)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (27:53.456)
Yeah, you're so correct and it's different from men to women too, where men at baseline, very general statement here, tend to have more spontaneous desire, whereas women, again very general here,

tend to have more responsive desire. And so when you're already starting on different sides of the page, you're trying to come to the middle ground. And then you add in these hormone changes and communication changes and all these other things. And now, like you said, what used to only take a minute or what used to make a man erect just by looking at their spouse, now they need physical stimulation on top of that. Now the woman needs an extra couple of minutes of foreplay before

she's well lubricated. There's so there's so much or an extra 20 minutes. Yeah, absolutely. Or maybe she's not going to get lubricated enough on her own period and let's use some lubrication and can we please just normalize lubrication and not making women feel like they're bad news. I mean, like, come on. There are days where I'm just dehydrated and I can't make enough. Like, it's just it is what it is. Throw some lube on there. It's good to go. And a lot of times it feels better.

Julia Satterlee (28:43.01)
an extra 20 minutes. mean.

Julia Satterlee (28:59.51)
Yes please!

Julia Satterlee (29:08.194)
Right, it'd be like shaming somebody for needing chapstick, right? We're not like, your skin needs lotion? Like, hmm, yeah, your skin is defective. We would never do that to people.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (29:14.516)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (29:20.116)
That's such a great example. Yes. Yeah, it's so true.

Julia Satterlee (29:25.025)
So, yeah.

On the same page there, absolutely.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (29:30.32)
Yeah, so okay, so we get kind of aroused and we're going through this whole cycle now there is the other thing that I find that a lot of people don't realize is that with age and changes in hormones your refractory period also changes and becomes longer I will have men come in and be like I don't understand why I can't go a second time I always used to be able to go a second time and now the last three years It's like it's longer and longer and longer. I'm like, yeah, that's kind of just a phase of aging. you know, it's unfortunate or fortunate

Fortunately, there's just this change that you go through and that refractory period does take longer. There are other things you can do. There's other ways to enjoy each other in that time, give massages, other things like that. And I'm sure you have great ideas for that because you're good with that. But I think it's really kind of reframing that as it's not something wrong with you. It's just truly a change as you go through life.

Julia Satterlee (30:11.746)
Thanks.

Julia Satterlee (30:25.902)
Exactly. Yeah, no, that's couldn't agree more. There are so many ways to handle that. And it's not unusual for people to learn new ways that they do like to engage and to learn that, you know, for example, you can still enjoy pleasure even with a penis. Hope I can say this on the podcast.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (30:50.344)
The sex podcast, we love penises.

Julia Satterlee (30:52.878)
You can enjoy pleasure still without a full erection. You can enjoy pleasure without getting to orgasm that time. You can enjoy so many sensations still without all those, it has to be like this, right? In different ways. And I think that's true for men and women, right? women...

Stephanie Zwonitzer (30:59.56)
Yes.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (31:10.61)
Mm-hmm

Julia Satterlee (31:17.922)
women's bodies don't typically have that same kind of refactory period. Women don't have that same design. so lots of times for women desire actually, I find increases when they're having more sexual experiences. So more frequency tends to lead to more interest in sex if they're having really pleasurable experiences. And so.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (31:22.216)
Yep.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (31:30.387)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (31:34.364)
Yes.

Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (31:41.214)
Correct. Yes. There is that caveat.

Julia Satterlee (31:46.7)
But again, even if your partner is a man and he's having a longer factory period, that doesn't have to kill all the fun, kill all the excitement. There's still so much you can do to enjoy each other in that time.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (31:54.066)
Right.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's really important that couples talk about that too, that, you know, don't feel like, I mean, it's okay to almost give your partner permission like, hey, I know we're not going to go another round here for a while. I'm good. You want to snuggle? Do you want to do massages? Do you want to do whatever? Those can still be very pleasurable things. And the other thing that I have a lot of guys talk to me about that I don't think they were ready for or knew about is that they don't always orgasm every time as they get older.

and that we can help. There are things that we can do to encourage that there's lifestyle things you can do, whatever, but there is just some degree of it takes so much more effort for some men later in life that it just doesn't, and women, absolutely, that it just doesn't happen every time and that that's okay. You can still have a wonderful sexual experience just because it didn't include a climax this time doesn't mean it wasn't

Julia Satterlee (32:44.14)
and women.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (32:59.638)
next.

Julia Satterlee (33:01.122)
Yep, exactly. That's exactly what I mean about redefining sex and what we want from the experience and what feels good. Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (33:11.332)
Awesome, awesome. So what are we moving into next? What's the next module?

Julia Satterlee (33:16.046)
After that communication piece, that's when we're really ready to get to co-creating this kind of pleasure roadmap for what's next. Okay, now let's get into what are we doing sexually? Now we have a much better idea of just other ways to connect, not just sex, but really including emotional connection and playful connection, fun, silliness, all that kind of thing.

understanding our bodies and desire and arousal, and then, you know, okay, we're able to open up communication about it. now the world is our oyster, right? Now we play, now we experiment. And so that's where in that module, that's kind of a really big, big, big part of the program altogether is that exploration piece where we are really redefining sex and what do we enjoy together? How do we like to touch together?

How do we like to create the mood in between sessions, especially, again, it might be longer in between when we have intercourse or when we have any particular type of what we previously thought of as sex. Well, what are we doing in between? How are we dating each other? How are we enjoying each other's company? How are we connecting? How are we finding new ways to orgasm, finding new ways to really

Stephanie Zwonitzer (34:18.152)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (34:26.93)
Yeah.

Julia Satterlee (34:42.318)
take sensuality to the next level, things like that. All of that is in that next module of exploration together.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (34:50.204)
I love that. love that. think, you know, it's just building every module that you have is just building on the previous and I can just see my patients and my clients going through this and being like light bulb moments, you know, like I love this. This is fabulous.

Julia Satterlee (35:04.994)
Thank you, thank you. It's my former teacher brain.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (35:08.532)
I can feel your passion for this and how much you've put into this. So what's the final, you said there's five modules, what's the final module?

Julia Satterlee (35:17.454)
The final module is all about sustaining this, right? Because what I really want for people is to create the love life that they want and for this to last. Like I'm not working with this age group to just, great, have a quick session of fun. I wanna work with us because this is our future. Like this is, I in my 40s.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (35:38.515)
Yeah.

Julia Satterlee (35:42.21)
But I've worked with folks in these age groups so much as late as late 70s, like, and had great success with folks really being able to enjoy intimacy and enjoy their bodies in different ways. And I'm building this program in part for myself, right? Because I have no plans for my sexuality to fall by the wayside.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (36:05.47)
Right.

Julia Satterlee (36:06.74)
All of us deserve to enjoy pleasure in our bodies, enjoy pleasure and connection in our relationship until death, right? Like this is part of the joys and rights of having a body and being able to connect at least with ourselves and then with a partner.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (36:16.211)
Yes.

Julia Satterlee (36:27.66)
We all deserve this. want everybody to have this. And so I want to really make it sustainable. So that last module is about, okay, what are we gonna do to keep this momentum going? How are we going to create kind of rituals and guidelines and, you know, reminders for each other, for ourselves of how we're showing up and how we adjust when things go wrong or how we adjust as more things change in our bodies, as health statuses change.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (36:38.196)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (36:49.95)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Satterlee (36:57.248)
all of those things, what are we going to do to really maintain our connection throughout and maintain this pleasure? So that's that last module. And then the idea of it being a membership is that people can stay and continue getting more and more ideas and information and experts and all of this so that we are really sustaining this for life.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (37:21.618)
Yeah, that's amazing. I love it. What's the typical timeframe that people are taking to kind of go through the modules?

Julia Satterlee (37:28.654)
So I just created the program. I started the seed launch, my basic beginning of the program just recently. And so by the time this episode comes out, it'll be a little later than now. But the idea is that people can complete all five modules within about 90 days. We're moving at a pretty good pace.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (37:31.367)
Okay.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (37:40.051)
Okay.

Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (37:55.635)
Yeah.

Julia Satterlee (37:57.474)
you know, about two weeks per module except for that exploration phase, which is more like four weeks, but that's a pretty fast pace. And so the idea is that's like, yes, you can absolutely do this in 90 days, but if it's slower, that's no big deal. Cause I don't want people to like, my God, I only have three months. I gotta rush through this and then not really enjoy the experience.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (38:01.78)
Yeah.

Yeah. Sure.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (38:11.507)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (38:18.941)
Yeah.

Well, and it depends on where you're starting, right? If you've never had any of these conversations, it's definitely going to take you longer. If you already have like pretty decent sex life, but you're really trying to just like kind of reinvigorate it, whatever. Yeah, you might go through it a little faster. But for people who have never pleasured themselves, don't know how to do that together, haven't had those conversations, it's going to take longer than 90 days. And I think that's really magical because you're just allowing yourself those deeper connections, which is only going to make the outcome even better.

Julia Satterlee (38:34.325)
exactly.

Julia Satterlee (38:51.156)
Exactly, exactly. You know exactly.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (38:53.554)
Yeah, I love it. I love it. This is amazing. Okay, so tell everybody how they can be in touch with you and participate in this program and membership.

Julia Satterlee (39:02.594)
Yeah, absolutely. So folks can get started by taking the quiz, first of all, right? That's a great starter intro and that'll give you already some fun ideas. So that link will be with you as well in the show notes. And then the other way that they can get in touch is through my website, which is www.pleasure-wise.com.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (39:08.38)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Satterlee (39:29.568)
Or they can also send me an email, julia at pleasure-wise.com. Any of those things work. I'm on Instagram. I put all the info in your show notes as well, if that's all right, Stephanie. But any way that they would like to contact me, I can get them connected with all of the information they need, and they're welcome to ask any questions, and we can get them started right away.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (39:41.108)
Perfect. Yes, of course.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (39:54.746)
Awesome. I love that. I'm so glad you were here, Julia. You are always such a bright spot in our recording. And I just really appreciate your knowledge and your passion here. And for anybody who is in this age group, you might also be needing some hormone help. So definitely check out reviveish.com for your hormone needs. And if you're not in this age group, pass this recording on to somebody who is because you could help them and they could get in touch with Julia too. So we appreciate all of you listeners. As always, go have some fun.

between the sheets.

Julia Satterlee (40:26.754)
Thank you.