Navigating Sexuality In Midlife: A Comprehensive Guide

In this enlightening conversation, Stephanie Zwonitzer and Karen Bigman delve into the complexities of life and sexuality after 50. They discuss the stigma surrounding midlife sexuality, the importance of open communication in relationships, and the impact of hormonal changes on sexual health. Karen shares her insights on dating dynamics in midlife, the significance of financial stability, and the necessity of addressing both emotional and physical aspects of intimacy. The discussion also covers menopause, testosterone's role in women's health, and the importance of seeking help for sexual health issues. Overall, the conversation emphasizes the need for education, self-advocacy, and open dialogue about sexuality in midlife.

takeaways

• There's a lot of stigma and shame around sex as we age.
• Financial stability becomes a key factor in midlife dating.
• Open communication about sex and health is crucial.
• Menopause affects women's sexual health significantly.
• Hormone replacement therapy can alleviate menopausal symptoms.
• Erectile dysfunction can signal underlying health issues.
• Intimacy can extend beyond penetration and traditional norms.
• Delayed ejaculation is common and can be addressed.
• Therapeutic approaches can aid in overcoming sexual trauma.
• Self-exploration and understanding one's body are essential.

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Transcript

Stephanie Zwonitzer (00:01.538)
Welcome back to Between the Sheets. We have another wonderful conversation for you today. We are going to talk about life and sex after 50. I have Karen Bigman here with me today, and she is a certified sex educator. She is a certified menopause coach, and she is on a mission to create a sex positivity and demystify sex health, reducing shame and encouraging sexual wellness.

for midlifers. So welcome, Karen. I'm so happy to have you here today. Yeah, absolutely. This is definitely a topic that I love because I think so many of us get taught about

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (00:32.024)
Thanks for having me.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (00:41.08)
you know, early in life, young adulthood, having kids, things like that. man, when it comes to midlife, empty nesting, refi- figuring out who we are, and not to mention all the hormonal changes and all these things that happen in midlife, I love that there's people like you that will help us focus on that.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (00:58.978)
Well, thank you, that's exactly why I'm here.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (01:01.316)
I love that. So what kind of helped you like narrow into this age group?

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (01:07.39)
gosh, it's not narrow, no. So there's a bunch of several areas. The first is that there's a lot of stigma and shame around sex in general in our society, but particularly as we age. There's this myth that women get to a certain point and we're just no longer sexual, like we're all rushed up, we go through menopause and men all have erectile issues and they just like can pop a Viagra and so easy for them. So there's a lot of kind of like getting the conversations going and being able to

Stephanie Zwonitzer (01:32.782)
Thanks for

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (01:36.59)
talk about it. The other piece which I'm focusing more and I focused a lot on the female side of menopause in the beginning and now I'm actually focusing on helping educate men more about it because they hopefully will play a role in their point in their female partners menopause as well. And then I also talk about dating and relationships. I've been single for a while and

Stephanie Zwonitzer (01:52.727)
Yeah.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (01:59.202)
There's a whole different approach at this point in life and dealing with the physical issues that could be challenging. So those are the main areas of focus. Pick one, pick all. We got a lot to talk about.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (02:07.896)
Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. No, I definitely agree. mean, I have dated I'm in a committed partnership now, but I'm in my 40s. I've been dating for a while. And so yeah, it's very different dating, you know, after marriage with kids, things like that, than it was when I was in my 20s. Definitely what I have noticed more than anything is that I am looking for different things than I looked for when I was younger, you know, the financial stability, what are your goals for retirement?

those kinds of things are so much more important and I don't think I ever talked to anyone about well where do you want to retire or what do you want to do after retirement when I was younger so it definitely is a big shift in that.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (02:56.098)
No, absolutely. mean, there's, you know, that has been quite interesting. I'm 62 and so I have date mostly men in their late 50s, early 60s. And I'm actually, people sort of have frowned upon it, but I am so like one of the first criteria besides, you know, honesty and kindness is financial stability because badly in this day and age, there's a lot of people who, whatever the reasons are, and sometimes it's a result of divorce, sometimes it's just bad planning.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (03:15.18)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (03:23.374)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (03:23.458)
But it's really important. don't want to be, what do we say, a nurse or a purse?

Stephanie Zwonitzer (03:28.396)
Yeah, yeah, exactly, absolutely. So what are some kind of things that people can do at this phase of life in dating to try and really kind of find someone more on the level that they're looking for?

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (03:44.354)
The biggest piece of advice that you will probably hear from most dating experts and life coaches is work on yourself. I find the relationships that have not worked out for me, unfortunately there have been a few too many, have been a combination of the person I was with really not having done any work, working through their issues and my own journey to try to really understand what it is that I need for me and how I can

Stephanie Zwonitzer (03:52.164)
Mmm.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (04:13.87)
Help myself and be my own best friend and then find someone who complements that and really can can support me in that and one of the hardest lessons I think I learned in my marriage. I was married for 26 years. I told me got divorced was I never felt like someone had my back and I thought is and not that he was the whole person or anything like that But I think we were young and we didn't really think about what things would be beyond, you know Kids, so I think it's really important to really feel

Stephanie Zwonitzer (04:30.052)
Mmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (04:36.248)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (04:40.046)
Yeah.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (04:42.478)
feel like somebody is consistent and they show up when they say they're gonna show up that they don't make you feel that whole like anxiety of not knowing that you have to change who you are. I had a wonderful therapist tell me, you're turning yourself into a pretzel for this person. Like we never wanna be someone who we're not. You wanna really be able to be yourself, but also to know who you are to be able to be that person and strong enough to say, no, you don't.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (05:03.363)
Right.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (05:11.704)
compliment me, you don't serve me, you're not worthy of me, I'm worthy of somebody who treats me properly.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (05:18.392)
Yeah. And I think one of the things I had to learn was that it doesn't make that person a bad person or anything wrong with them at all. They're just not for me and the boundaries and the goals that I have. So if I want someone who's financially stable and you're not, that doesn't mean you're a bad person. Like you said, maybe they went through a bad time. Maybe they had, but I know for me, being financially stable is very important and having a partner who is also financially stable is important. So I think learning those kinds

of things like you said, my my hard stops was very important for me to figure out where I'm going to draw that line and which lines are like, all right, there is some wiggle room here. And then on other ones, no, there's not. This is it. This is the hard stop.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (06:03.598)
Right. And I always joke, he doesn't have to have a private plane, but he needs to be able to pay his bills. And sadly, I was in a five-year relationship and my partner just was not good with money and never planned properly and sort of delusional about the opportunities that were out there. And I just had to end it because I just saw that he needed more and it wasn't... So I used to be a divorce coach before I got into this work. And the two conversations that I say are the hardest conversations to have are about money and about sex.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (06:27.086)
Okay.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (06:33.614)
Mm-hmm.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (06:34.206)
And they're often the conversations that nobody wants to have. they get more and more, the longer you go without talking about them, the harder they get to talk about. And so it's just, you can bury it under your head in the sand for so long, but at some point it's gonna come up. that was that, the financial side. to me, I'm particularly sensitive about that, but I think we all should be, none of us wants to be broken in our later years. And that's a real possibility, unfortunately.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (06:40.952)
Yes.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (06:57.4)
Great.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (07:02.508)
Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, let's talk about that sex conversation because I think you're right. It's difficult for people to have that conversation. And I always tell, you know, my patients at work or people that listening on the podcast, I feel very strongly that if you can't openly talk about sex, your STI history, what your likes, your dislikes, you know, a brief afterwards, like, hey, that didn't really work out that good, or I thought that was going to feel better than it did or whatever. If you can't have those conversations,

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (07:06.331)
You

Stephanie Zwonitzer (07:32.442)
You really shouldn't be having sex with that person.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (07:35.086)
Absolutely love that. That's exactly what I preach and I always you know, one of the the Myths I think that many of us have getting back into the bedroom at this point in life is that well She can't get pregnant anymore. So we don't need to worry and so I am like a huge advocate of like that STI conversation has to be had early and often and I will say that in the last couple of years I've I've met a

Stephanie Zwonitzer (07:57.314)
Yep. Yeah.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (08:02.636)
few men, which I hadn't in my first like eight years of dating men who've had herpes, which, you know, I've learned a lot about it. And really it's not a question of stigma, but that conversation came up really quickly. It didn't wait till we got naked. And now I just say like, nothing comes off below the belt until we both had our full STI panel. And by the way, herpes is not part of standard STI testing. And in my generation, especially, it was very common.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (08:12.386)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (08:21.208)
Yeah.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (08:28.544)
And it's not a death sentence, you you want to protect yourself if you can. that, that part is, know, and I think once you can have that, the rest of the conversation gets a little bit easier. and I, I would hope today that people are open to that. And if they're not, like you said, like you don't want to get into bed with someone who doesn't want to talk about it.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (08:38.542)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (08:46.264)
Right, absolutely. And I think at this point in life, and I know we're a couple generations, but we're still adults, not in our first adult relationship. I've had bad sex. I don't want to. I want to have that conversation with my partner and be like, this hasn't worked or that hasn't worked. Like, let's do this or, my God, I loved that. That was awesome. I don't.

bad sex anymore. I want to talk about it. I want to have that conversation and multiple conversations about it. And I want to explore and I want to do all these things. And I think that was something that 20 year old Stephanie didn't know how to do or didn't realize the importance of that for a relationship.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (09:29.678)
What has been one of the most interesting and fascinating learnings I've had? So I started this, I have my podcast, Taboo to Truth, Life and Sex After 50. I started that in September of 23. And originally I thought I'd focus very much on menopause and I certified as a menopause coach. And then I came across the Sexual Health Alliance where I ended up doing my certification as a sex educator. And as part of that, I learned about fluidity in relationships, fluidity in gender, fluidity in sexuality.

And one of the things that communities that are not necessarily monogamous or straight or heterosexual, they have these conversations as part of the wooing, if you will. As a heterosexual monogamous person, I meet a guy like I know where we're gonna end up, most likely. So we don't ever talk about it. And I think that is like, if we could teach, even if we weren't teaching the proper

Stephanie Zwonitzer (10:13.752)
Yeah.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (10:27.138)
body part names in the next ad, if we can teach people how to ask the questions and have the conversations upfront about like, what do you like? What is okay to try? And by the way, if you don't like it, it's okay to stop. I mean, I've had normal thrive just been like, you are hurting me. Like we need to stop. I am not enduring this. And some women especially are afraid and men don't know necessarily. They think you're enjoying it. We're faking, we're like waiting for it to be over and that should never ever be.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (10:28.227)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (10:45.081)
Yes.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (10:56.844)
what you're experiencing.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (10:58.564)
Right, absolutely. And there's a lot, especially in midlife with women, and all of a sudden something does hurt that didn't hurt before because our hormones are changing and there's vaginal dryness that wasn't there before and maybe you didn't realize you were gonna be dry and so you don't have lube handy or whatever. So, you know, there's a lot that goes into that. I think having those ongoing conversations are just so imperative.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (11:20.718)
And the comfort level with the person, I don't know how graphic I can get here. I won't get that bad, I was with a partner that I have and I literally like, were really into it and all of a sudden I was just like burning and I didn't know where the lube was and I'm just like, oh my God, like it did ruin the moment.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (11:24.716)
You can be as graphic as you want.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (11:43.106)
Yeah.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (11:43.246)
but it was just so uncomfortable and he felt terrible. And so I'm like, okay, next time we gotta have the lube on every side of the bed so we know if that moment is coming, we're gonna have the lube ready. And it's just like lube and vibrators and pillows and things that are all just part of what we have in the bedroom. it is, sex can be messy and weird, but it's also what makes it kind of more fun. If you just go and do the same thing and it gets boring.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (11:50.68)
Yes. You're right.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (12:01.411)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (12:08.365)
Yes.

Right, absolutely. I think having the conversations about, you know, fantasies or things that you might want to try and whether or not you actually end up trying them or, you know, not, I think it's still a fun adventure to have those conversations. And maybe you will spark something that's like, yeah, let's try that. That sounds interesting.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (12:29.794)
Yeah, and I joke, I personally, I'm a dirty talker. I like a little dirty talk, but often the men in my generation can't hear very well. So I call it dirty yelling.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (12:43.65)
Yes. Right? I love it. Yes. Yes. That's great. It's so true. It's so true. So.

I know one of the things that you started as more of the on the menopause side and with women. And then you kind of transitioned into more of working with some of the men. So let's kind of work through that. What are some of the things that you can really help the women with? And then we'll move on to the men. So this perimenopause, menopause phase of life, what's going on with women that we can really kind of help them with going in that phase?

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (13:21.294)
First of all, every woman is going to go through menopause. doesn't mean every woman is going to suffer terribly. Some women have debilitating symptoms. Some women have very few symptoms, but they all, even my friends that have not had any kind of the obvious symptoms like hot flashes and things like that, end up with vaginal dryness later in life. So we will all need something.

The most important thing to know is that, first of all, there's nothing wrong with you. Most likely there's nothing wrong with you. And number two, that there are solutions to help. And I think for many, many years there was this misinterpretation of a study that led to the belief that hormone replacement therapy caused cancer, which they now know there's very different interpretation. I actually just came from the Ishwish conference, which is the

Stephanie Zwonitzer (13:47.927)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (14:05.571)
Yes.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (14:12.324)
Awesome.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (14:13.038)
International Society of Women's Sexual Health, something like that. And the last two years, there's been an enormous conversations around testosterone, which is really helpful for libido and for orgasms. And I suffered from anorgasmia, which was the difficulty in having an orgasm. So how important all these hormones are. to really that women need to, and their male partners too, need to really educate themselves on how they can help that even though you might not feel it,

Stephanie Zwonitzer (14:15.684)
Women's sexual health. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (14:22.276)
Mm-hmm.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (14:43.182)
You might not think you want it anymore. It's it should be part. It's a healthy part of our human existence not necessarily just sex with a partner but self-pleasure as well and so figuring out how to continue that however, it looks for you whether you know whether it is with a partner without a partner with a different kind of partner and a different kind of play I try to like open women's minds to it and and to also This one this one really kills me. I my best friend was not

Stephanie Zwonitzer (14:43.438)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (14:51.107)
Yeah.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (15:12.844)
about hormone replacement therapy, but she was talking to me and I said, okay, you got to get the topical vaginal estrogen because at least it took her, first of all, she couldn't get a doctor's appointment, but I think it took her like a year and a half to two years to finally get the prescription. There is this feeling that we must suffer, that women are, I'm just going to like, you know, run through this and I'm going to get through it I'm going to get over it. You're not, like you are actually doing yourself a disservice.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (15:19.203)
Yes.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (15:25.54)
Stephanie Zwonitzer (15:29.346)
Mm-hmm.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (15:38.37)
by not helping yourself with getting the proper medical treatment because they now know that osteoporosis can be prevented through hormone therapy. There are cardiovascular implications to not taking care of very bad night sweats. And there are also new medications that can help with libido. mean, there are these two medications they were talking a lot about at the conference by Lisi and Addie.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (16:00.344)
Yeah.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (16:05.634)
which are, like you're not feeling it and apparently you're like this one of them, you inject yourself and like within a few hours, you're like, let's go. You know, so there's so many things we can do for it. And so just not really not to give up and to advocate for yourself. You don't need to suffer.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (16:11.938)
Yeah

Stephanie Zwonitzer (16:21.058)
Yeah, absolutely. So one of the things that I specialize in is biogenic hormone replacement. And I'm a huge proponent of it. It's cognitive prevention. can prevent...

Alzheimer's and if you do end up with Alzheimer's you get a lesser form of it because you kept up with your estrogen through life. We can help with the vaginal symptoms, can help with the hot flashes, we can protect your muscles and your bones and all of these wonderful things that yes, unfortunately back in 2002 the Women's Health Initiative said stop everything, hormones cause cancer, it's a terrible thing. Well, it was only terrible in the synthetic hormones that they were using in specific populations and things like that. The study was

misinterpreted. And thankfully even the researchers that performed that study have come out and said that. So it's really really good. But I love what you're saying. We shouldn't have to suffer and women should not wait until you're completely through menopause to start getting those hormones. One of the things I like to tell my ladies it's a hell of a lot easier to maintain than it is to get back.

So if you're starting these symptoms and you're starting to have the hot flashes, you're starting to have vaginal dryness, let's get you on your hormones now before you're really like down the road. And now we've got to try and work our way back. Your poor friend that had to wait a year and a half to two years, I'm sure it took her months on that vaginal estrogen before she really started to feel the effects. Whereas if she had gotten it earlier, it might have been a couple of weeks or maybe she really didn't notice big changes at all. And so I think, you know, we're doing better.

still have a ways to go. have a lot of education of providers to go yet. But I'm right there with you. Get those those side effects treated, get your hormones balanced, and your life is going to be a lot more comfortable and enjoyable.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (17:58.168)
Great.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (18:10.55)
Yeah, I was very fortunate that my gynecologist was, I asked her actually when I started doing this work, she put me on hormones as soon as I started having hot flashes, which was actually in my late 40s or maybe even earlier. And she goes, well, I read the research and I realized like it didn't make sense. And so I never knew when I actually went through menopause. mean, I'm still on my hormones and I'm very content with all of them. But yeah, it's my girlfriend that I'm talking about, the one with the vaginostrum, she has osteopenia.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (18:31.308)
Yeah. Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (18:40.63)
Mm. Yep. Yep.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (18:41.11)
So, which is a precursor to osteoporosis for those people that don't know what that is. you know, she's at risk of falling and breaking a bone and she's 62 years old. I mean, that's really young, you know.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (18:49.346)
Yeah, right. Yeah, and it's interesting. You brought up testosterone, and that's really important for women. It's not just our sex drive. It's our motivation, period. It's our bone strength, our vascular system. There are so many things that the biggest area in the body for testosterone receptors is actually our heart.

There's more testosterone receptors in our heart than anywhere else in our body So it does more these these poor hormones got labeled as sex hormones and they do so much more than sex And so yeah, it's super important It's not just the estrogen and progesterone that women need we need testosterone too in a way less form than men do we don't need nearly the amount that men do but men also need estrogen just like we do they make some so, know, it's it's definitely kind of trying to pull back that view of

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (19:35.405)
Right.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (19:40.966)
Testosterone is a male hormone, estrogen is female hormone, and there's all this separation when there's not. There's differences, but we all need all of the hormones.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (19:50.464)
In fact, women, as I understand it, and I am not a clinician, so you know more than me, but have more testosterone in their 20s than men. It just gets converted to estrogen. So I also, so my issue with an orgasmia that I was right post, was separated from my husband and on the way to divorce and I met a guy and we were having all this great sex and I was having trouble having an orgasm. And I was convinced the universe was punishing me, but eventually,

Stephanie Zwonitzer (20:01.369)
Yes.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (20:18.5)
Yeah.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (20:19.19)
I found my way to this sexual medicine practice and they prescribed me testosterone and it's a game changer. It really is. They also taught me about vibrators, which was kind of a fun story.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (20:25.966)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yes! You know, it's so amazing to me how many women don't know how to please themselves, have never thought about it, are too ashamed to do it, and I'm like, but if you don't know what works for you, how is your partner supposed to know what works for you? Get that vibrator out, the fingers, the whatevers, and figure it out! Yes!

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (20:42.456)
Exactly.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (20:48.012)
Yep, yep, a mirror, have a date with yourself, put on some music and candles and yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (20:52.704)
Yes, and I love the mirror too. Yes, look at it. There are plenty. I had a woman not too long ago, I practice urology, and we were trying to teach her how to catheterize herself because she was having some bladder issues and things and she wasn't emptying well. And we went to show her how to do it and she was putting it in her vagina because she thought everything came out the same hole.

and she was in her 70s and I was just like man like

I don't even want to know what kind of sex you've had throughout your life because it obviously has not been good if you don't even know where everything is and what that does down there. So yes, take a mirror, look at it, appreciate it. It's beautiful. We all have different looking vulvas. There is no right or wrong vulva. And know what your clit is, what your urethra is, what your vagina is. And then if you do have something like a prolapse, all of a sudden you're going to be like, whoa, that's not normal. Let me go get checked out because you know what your normal is.

Thanks for

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (21:54.402)
Yes, yes, absolutely. And I've also learned, you probably know more about this than me, that after, I think it's 65, they're no longer requiring an internal exam for women or a vulvar. My gynecologist was telling me that she just diagnosed or found someone's vulvar cancer in their 70s by doing an exam. don't listen to that news. Get yourself checked in, you'll be barred list. Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (22:04.737)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (22:12.824)
Wow. Yeah.

Yes, absolutely.

Yeah, I mean, just because we don't necessarily need a pap smear anymore because cervical cancer tends to be a younger woman's cancer doesn't mean somebody shouldn't look at you down there to make sure everything's okay. You can also get melanoma in that area. I you can get so many things. Low testosterone, you can get lichen sclerosis all over your vulva, which is very irritating and itchy and can cause a lot of pain during sex. And that's a huge signal to us as providers to say, your hormones are not quite right here. So yeah, it's really important to look at

yourself and also to have a professional look at it from time to time. Yeah, I agree. So let's kind of flip over to the men's side then. So you've gotten into helping them more and you're right, it's more than just Papa Viagra because number one, not everybody can take Viagra. Number two, it doesn't work for everybody. So what are you helping the guys with and what kind of directions are you sending them in?

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (22:53.358)
Yes, definitely, definitely.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (23:15.47)
So one of the main things I've learned and they talked about this at the conference too, is that your penis health or erections are a sign of your overall health because the arteries to the penis, you're the urologist in the room, are the smallest ones in the first to clog. So if you have erectile dysfunction, first thing you wanna do is make sure that you don't have diabetes or cardiovascular issues. So it's not just that you can't get it up anymore. This could be a sign of something else. being able, again, it's the shame thing.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (23:26.786)
Yeah!

Yep.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (23:35.95)
Yep.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (23:44.462)
I dated a guy once and first time we kind of got naked, says, you sometimes it doesn't work. And I'm like, oh, he came to the right woman. You know, we're going to figure this out. And if it doesn't work, we'll find a way around it. So learning that it's not, does not have to always be about penetration and teaching men that, as Esther Perel says, sex begins at the end of the last orgasm, that it can be part of a much bigger picture rather than just intercourse. So really helping with that.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (23:51.65)
Yeah. Right. Yes.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (24:12.072)
And I've learned, which is kind of interesting that I'm always bitching, like I love the dating apps, I love meeting men, but the texting strands that it's like, they don't go anywhere. And what I've learned is that it's not that men don't want it to go anywhere, it's that they have not been taught how to communicate that way, they don't know how. And sometimes it's incumbent upon women to teach them, not obviously in a condescending way and not in an angry way, but...

Stephanie Zwonitzer (24:31.202)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (24:35.342)
Mm-hmm. Sure.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (24:38.542)
how to talk to women, how to talk to your female partner, how to, you know, like, hey, you seem crazy is not a good way to tell your wife, you know, she's having hormonal changes. I my parents used to say to me whenever I was in a bad mood, do you have your period? It's like, there's nothing worse you can say to a woman is, are you in menopause? Yes, I am.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (24:47.16)
Yes.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (24:57.858)
Right. You know, it's so funny. One of my friends, she is going through a paramedicopause and menopause and she gets pellets, which is not my favorite form of hormone replacement, but it does work really well for some people. And her husband will say to her, Hey, is it time for your appointment? Because he can tell when it starts to wear off and she becomes a bitch again. Like, please don't say that to me. Like just, I know when my appointment is.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (25:23.838)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just check her calendar. You don't need to have her. Yeah, no, there's definitely, we both need to learn how to talk to each other and to give grace because it is especially perimenopause. It's in a very erratic time and men...

Stephanie Zwonitzer (25:29.604)
Right. Exactly.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (25:38.883)
Yes.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (25:44.29)
There, as I understand it, testosterone tends to decline on a more gradual basis where for us it's like, it's up one day, there's nothing left the next day. And we're going through this roller coaster and can go on for many, for like 10 years, which is, I've heard some pretty horrible stories. So it's teaching that. And then, I hear a lot of older men only like younger women. Well, I've dated a lot of men around my age. There are a lot of men out there that are interested in women that are middle-aged too. Yes.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (25:51.884)
Right. Yeah.

Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (26:12.228)
Mm-hmm.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (26:13.614)
we would all love to have. I'd love a younger man too, but you he's not running me so.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (26:19.099)
Right, right. Yeah, I mean, I think it's really important to explore what works for you and what

you know, at each phase of life, especially if you're dating and things like that. So I don't think there's anything right or wrong about that. But I do think you're right. When I've been dating, I have had older men that have wanted to date younger. I've had younger men who've wanted to date older, and I've had men my own age. And I think that it's, you have to try and see what you like and what you don't like. I don't...

I don't necessarily sit there and think that age is just a number because I think it's more about how you live your life. I want someone who's active. I want someone who can keep up with me emotionally, mentally, physically, all of those things. whether you can do that being my age or five years younger, five years older, 10 years, whatever it is, I don't think that that really matters as much as like, are you on the same phase of life, path of life? Like, can you function together?

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (27:15.66)
Yeah, and are you curious? Like I'm a lifelong learner. If I meet somebody who's retired and all they do is play golf and watch sports and they have no other interests, like that's not for me. doesn't look like I'm somebody interesting. But I did coin the term when I turned 60. It was hard for me to get there and I hadn't started this work yet and I was single and I really had a bit of a hard time when I finally got...

Stephanie Zwonitzer (27:24.505)
Right.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (27:39.79)
past the birthday, decided that 60 is the new 60. Like everyone's like, oh, it's the new 40. I'm like, no, this is what 60 is like today. It's not this new mother or your grandmother's 60. We are young and vibrant. in fact, post-menopausal women have like, mean, studies show we're having the best sex of our lives. We have this whole like, I don't give a fuck attitude that starts to emerge partly hormonally as a result of some of the hormone changes too. it's really, it's a wonderful time. And I think

Stephanie Zwonitzer (27:46.498)
Yeah.

Right.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (28:00.292)
Yes!

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (28:09.774)
A good male partner appreciates that in you.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (28:13.474)
yeah i agree and i think what you were saying earlier about men and you know the

erections being such a light into their overall health. It's very true. If I have a younger guy coming in and it's not because of a porn addiction or something like that, one of the first things I do is send them to a cardiologist. Let's make sure that you don't have other major issues going on because I can fix your dick for you, but I can't fix your heart. And if we don't fix your heart, who cares if your dick works because you're not going to be able to functionally have sex and things like that. I think that's

really important and there are diet and lifestyle things that guys can do to improve that. We know that. We know they can eat better. They can lose some weight, get their blood sugars and their blood pressures under control, things like that. But there are times where they do need the medicines.

I don't like that there's shame involved in that. I think that you should be able to say, you know what, hey, this is feeling really good. I'm excited to be with you, but I need a little help. And so it's gonna be about an hour before this thing kicks in and we can really get at it. But let's, you know, we can still make out until then. We can still do this until then, or let's snuggle and watch this movie while the medicine kicks in and then we'll get back at it. I hate that there's so much shame around that for guys, because there's no shame in my game when I need lube.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (29:34.19)
Yeah, yeah. And by the way, one of the things that Ms. is hopefully going to get FDA approval soon. I don't know if you heard about this is, is a sedanafil for women topical, which, so we're going to have our own Viagra, which will be kind of cool too. Yeah, no, I agree. I do, I do see that men, in fact, it's almost I've seen in the opposite where they'll, they'll just get the prescriptions without having the medical workup, which can also be dangerous. So they're like, and so they may not tell you they're taking it. And if

Stephanie Zwonitzer (29:45.41)
Yeah? Yup.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (29:58.274)
Yep, very.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (30:03.456)
Of course, I guess it's also bio-psycho-social. So it's also emotional. So even if you take the pill and you don't, things aren't going right in your head. It's not going to work.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (30:08.056)
Yeah, correct.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (30:12.492)
Yeah. Yeah, I'll have guys who see Alice works and works and works and then they'll come in and be like, stuff the last six weeks, it hasn't worked.

Well, what happened seven weeks ago? Oh, well, I lost my job or my mom died or whatever. That's what's happening right now. It's not that the Cialis all of a sudden isn't working for you. It's that y'all's head to head connection, your head to your wiener head is very, very strong. And if anything in your bigger head is not working correctly or distracted or whatever, your little head isn't going to work. It just isn't. It's just like when we're distracted or thinking about the grocery list, we're not going to achieve an orgasm. It's just not as

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (30:25.772)
Yes.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (30:51.782)
noticeable because our body part doesn't have to get aroused to be able to perform. we can perform without fully arousal. it's not fun. i don't want to do that, but we can.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (31:05.42)
Yeah, yeah. And it's also just that idea that penetration is the name of the game. That's the outcome. Like we're all gonna head there and then he's gonna ejaculate and it's all over. And just understanding, like I've learned, there's all sorts of, there's sensation play and there's tantric specs and there's this whole mind-body connection. And it can be really, really beautiful and amazing and hot and orgasmic, even if it doesn't include penetration.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (31:12.962)
rights.

Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (31:22.5)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (31:29.358)
Yeah.

Absolutely. you know, I like to bring that up too, because not all guys are candidates for Viagra or Cialis. And there are other things that we could get into in another conversation about what to go to next for erections. But there are guys who can't tolerate that. so then, penetration is now off the table unless you're going to wear a strap on or a enhancement. And so you do get to explore those other things. And I think that's fun. I think it's fun to explore other ways of bringing you and your partner pleasure and

excitement. I think it's amazing.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (32:04.878)
Yeah, and it's very much about helping reduce the stigma about whether it's, know, anal play for men that are, oh my God, that means I'm gay, you know, learning about how that could be a lot of fun regardless. And, different, you know, different approaches or whether it's a little kink. Kink does not have to mean you're going into a dungeon and strapping on, you know, getting up on one of those St. James crosses. It can be subtle, you know, and still be a lot of fun. So really encouraging.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (32:15.329)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (32:26.35)
Right.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (32:30.772)
exploration and curiosity and openness and just having the conversations. Don't just do it and expect that she's gonna like it or he's gonna like it. Talk about it and it will be amazing for both of you.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (32:42.402)
Yeah, I agree. The other thing that I have found, and tell me if you see this in the guys that you work with, is the unexpected, I think, which is weird because I expect it to happen to the guys, but not everybody understands that, is the prolonged refractory period. The older they get, the longer that refractory period is. So you achieve your orgasm before you can get your next erection, there's this refractory period. And when you're in your 20s, man, that's like 20 seconds. And you're just like racking out another erection.

and you're ready to go. But the older you get, the longer that can go. And I have had guys come into me in the urology clinic just for that one question. Why can't I go a second time anymore? I used to be able to. Now it's six, eight hours, 12 hours later, maybe a day or two. And it's truly a natural phenomenon that happens and it's our hormone changes and it's all of these things. Do you have guys that come in talking to you about that?

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (33:40.728)
Honestly, no. No, that's not. mean, I've had partners that actually have had, interestingly, a couple of partners where they have trouble ejaculating. They just, can't ejaculate. And I do believe, my ex-boyfriend and my other partner, it has to do with religious shame as well. Like I think there's a lot of that. So I've seen that and I've seen erectile dysfunction, but I haven't seen, in fact, you remind me, my ex-boyfriend was like, he was an anomaly.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (33:41.88)
No?

Stephanie Zwonitzer (33:52.217)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (34:00.928)
Mm. Yep.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (34:10.84)
come three times within an hour. Like I was the one that was saying like, all right, you do you, cause I'm done. No, but I would imagine it, you know, look, it happens to all of us. Like our body's age, love it or hate it, our body's age.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (34:17.954)
Right, right, time out, time out. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's funny.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (34:25.686)
It does. Yep. Yeah. And you brought up to, know, the

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (34:34.616)
Delayed ejaculation.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (34:34.852)
It's just yes. Thank you the delayed ejaculation, which is definitely an issue I see it more in my older guys and by older I just mean above 50 You're not old in my book till you're like 85 so my older guys, know I see it more in them than guys in their 20s and 30s, but it happens even then but it can be Medications it can be hormones. It can be lifestyle. It can be again head-to-head connection. What's going on up there? That's not allowing you to get there Do you have things that you talk to

your clients about to kind of help them work with that.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (35:09.102)
It's facing that, you know, dealing with that. mean, I'm not a therapist, so I can't, but I would definitely direct somebody who's having those issues to start to really focus on it. I think that's another thing that I really try. Men are so afraid of being vulnerable. They're so afraid of talking about it. I mean, if I meet a guy on a date that has not done any internal work, like I move on because it is so important.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (35:31.171)
Mm-hmm.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (35:33.26)
their life will get better. So the thing that I do counsel is like, whether it's me or working with a men's group or a men's coach or a therapist or a sex therapist, whoever, however it is, we've all got stuff and it's a component of it. And if it is not a physical issue, it often has to do with the script that you were taught. It's supposed to work this way.

Often, know guys that that are updated that are very Catholic and are now divorced I think there's a lot of guilt around that and that you know now I'm sleeping with someone else You know, this is shameful and even though they want it. There's something in there that saying there's something wrong here So yeah, I really I encourage that, know do the work learn to talk about it and you'll get more women

Stephanie Zwonitzer (36:04.804)
Yep.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (36:13.55)
Right? Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (36:20.822)
Yeah, absolutely. And you know what's amazing is you talk about all this variety in you what is happening to men. There are counselors and therapists for every type of face. There are people who help you overcome the purity culture. There are people who will work with you just on you know, mindfulness and being in the moment and those kinds of things. There are literally people who will help you with every single aspect. So whatever it is,

that is getting in the way of your true enjoyment. I agree. Do the work. Find the person that's going to help you. And if the first therapist, coach, whomever doesn't work for you, you don't jive well, it's not a good vibe for you, go to the next one. Don't just stop and give up. I think it's so important. I've had many therapists over the years and not every single one has been the right fit for me. And I move on until I get that right fit for whatever that season of my life is.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (37:18.05)
Yeah, I think that's, it's very hard. remember the first time I went to therapy with someone who I'd been doing a mother's group with when my kids were little, and I've since moved and had various people, but it's kind of hard. You're like, wait, this person doesn't connect with me, but they're the therapist, so they should know. like any relationship, it doesn't always work. So I think that that's really important. The other type of therapy, if you will, that I learned about is surrogate therapy, which is kind of interesting.

where, so I guess licensed clinical therapists are not allowed to touch their patients, but a surrogate, and I'm not talking about someone who's a sex worker in the terms of like having sex with you, but can really help if you have issues, help you be able, if you've suffered sexual trauma and just trying to be able to get back to being intimate with someone. I've talked to cuddlist, I've talked to surrogate partners who actually will help you get naked and be comfortable.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (37:55.672)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (38:03.15)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (38:08.611)
Yeah.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (38:13.646)
And they've told me like sometimes it's just being able to hold someone's hand that somebody is so traumatized by physical touch that then they want to be sexual again, that that is just the starting point at getting back into it. I do, absolutely there's so many types of therapies and modalities that can really help you both deal with difficulties and really enjoy new and different ways of having intimacy.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (38:25.849)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (38:36.045)
Yeah.

Yeah, that's amazing. So tell me and tell all of our listeners, how can people find you? How can they work with you? You have a podcast. I want to hear it all. Tell me how they can get in touch with you.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (38:49.688)
So my podcast is Taboo to Truth, Life and Sex After 50, and it's available on all the podcast platforms. I also have it on YouTube. It's Taboo to Truth, at Taboo to Truth podcast. My website is Taboo to Truth, hence the theme. It's all tabudatruth.com. And I'll be releasing, hopefully by the end of the month, probably worst case early March, I'm gonna be releasing a course for men meet menopause to help support your female partners. have another course

course online course that is an adult sex education comprehensive, the physical, the body, the menopause, the endopause, and then some fun stuff, things you can do with or without your partner's communication prompts, things like that. So I'm really trying to put the tools out there and they're 27 bucks, they're really not a big investment. And I have now launched a couple weeks ago on my sub stack, which I'm not terribly active, but I do have a paid subscriber.

option for Ask Me Anything. So if you want to pay the five bucks a month or 10 bucks a month, can't remember one of those, you can ask me anything, you know, personally through the sub stack. So I'm trying to be out there as much as I can. Yeah, it's been, I love what I do. It's really a labor of love. It's really so important that your sex span and your lifespan should be equal. We are sexual beings and the world would be a better place if we all just had more good sex.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (40:13.676)
Right? More orgasms equals world peace. Now we have a platform for when we are in Miss America.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (40:16.745)
There you go, there you go.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (40:23.042)
There you go. Yeah, except they'll censor us.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (40:26.05)
Right, right, we'll be off. Well, thank you so much for being here, Karen. It's been such a pleasure to talk to you. Everybody listening, if you have hormone issues that you want and you're in the state of Maryland, look up reviveish.com and I would love to work with you. You'll catch new episodes of Between the Sheets every Wednesday, hump day, obviously. And I really appreciate you being here. Go have some fun Between the Sheets.

Karen Bigman, Midlife Sexpert (40:50.478)
Thank you, it was great being here.